17
Mar
09

A Case for DKP

Dragon Kill Points are somewhat of a hotly debated subject for most people who play WoW.  It seems as though people always like the idea or truly hate it altogether and like any polarizing effect, it can easily tear guilds apart.  However, I believe that the main problem stems not so much from the system as how it’s implemented for the guild as a whole.  No matter how something’s done though, it’s going to have it’s detractors.

My guild implemented a DKP system about a month or so after I joined it and I will admit that I was a little reticent myself when it was suggested.  We had been working on a rollsystem and I felt that this was fine.  Most of the people in the guild had a few weeks Naxx experience and weren’t needing upgrades, so I got to see a fair amount of new loot myself this way.  Yes, my preferences were guided by my underlying loot whorishness, but that’s neither here nor there.

The reasoning behind it was simple and straight forward.  The more you raided, the more DKP you got.  It was a tangible representation of the dedication you had for the guild.  Those who raided more could afford to spend more and therefore would get geared out.  Those who didn’t raid as often would still get items, but usually only after everyone else who wanted it had it.  Also, they would often get it for bargain basement prices so it didn’t matter if they only had a minimal amount of DKP, which is better than it getting sharded.  Those who had higher attendance were rewarded and those with lower weren’t punished for it, but were encouraged to raid more often.

Of course there was a massive thread on our forums debating this topic that eventually stretched to about 6 or 7 pages with single posts long enough that I probably could have just cut and paste one onto here and called it a day.  Eventually, though, it was decided that yes, we would be going ahead with the DKP system and would see how it worked and make changes as necessary.  Some people cheered and some people jeered, but we all agreed to give it a chance.

And it sucked.  The basic rules were that each boss in Naxx is worth 10 DKP, Malygos is worth 40 and Sarth is worth 10 plus another 10 for each drake up during the kill.  When a boss was looted, the Loot Master would call for an open bid in raid chat and everyone would have to publicly bid until there was one person left over.  However, this system led to collusion and people coming to agreements among friends on whether or not they would bid on something.  People could see this and, of course, complain because no one wants to get cheated.  Plus since we were doing it in raid chat it was massively distracting while the raid was trying to both clear trash to next boss and bid on new items.

So we went back to the thread and posted more arguments and debating till finally after 10 pages it was decided we needed some sort of silent auction system.  Though this wouldn’t completely deal with the problem of collusion, it would go a long way in stopping “casual collusion” where one person sees someone else and thinks they deserve it more so they stop bidding on it, causing DKP prices to fall for certain items.  A silent auction would go a long way in solving our problems so one of our officers who makes mods as a hobby created this fantastic little program.  My friends, I give you, EckDKP:

eckdkp

This mod is the shit.  As you can see, it displays your DKP and will update automatically, so you can always see how much you got.  This is currently showing loot from Maexxna and if you were to scroll over those items the stats will pop up just like you were actually looting from her.  You can also ctrl click on them to open the dressing room and see what the items look like.  Once bidding begins, a zero comes up in the “High Bid” section and anyone who wants to can click on any of the +number buttons to bid that many DKP.  If you’re serious you can type in a number or if you’re balls to the walls enough you can just hit all in.  If you’re the high bid the number is displayed as green for you, if not then it’s red.  If you’re not interested in any of the items, just close it out and you’re done for that boss.  If you want to get the last item on the list, just click on it and close out the window and when that item comes up for bid, the window will re-open for you.

This mod has made the DKP system quick, easy and much more enjoyable.  Since it’s gone into effect we have not had any issues whatsoever with the loot system and no major complaints.  Of course, I’m sure there’s at least a few people that if they had it their way they would change things up, but that’s the way with anything.  Some might prefer to do away with the bidding system and go on a static “each item is worth X amount” system and there might be validity to that. 

With Ulduar on the way, I’m sure at least one or two people will tap out on their DKP in the first night, which will definitely suck for them.  The auction system is most definitely not kind or forgiving to impulse buyers.  I know that I take much care in spending my DKP, being slow to bid on an item for off spec.  I also usually won’t spend a lot of point even on big upgrades.  The most expensive items I have are my Life-Binder’s Locket and my Cape of the Unworthy Wizard, both of which I spent about 200 DKP for and both of which are best in slot. 

Some people may also consider it unfair that occasionally I’ll pull two items from the same boss and that the DKP system can actively encourage me to do so.  I usually fluctuate between 600 and 800 DKP and trust me when I say I have no qualms about spending it when I want to.  Since I have 100% raid attendance at the moment, I also feel that I’ve earned the right to be able to gear myself better.  Whether or not that sounds dickish is besides the point, if I’m there all the time, I need to be better to help improve the guild and DKP allows me to do that.

The point is that the DKP system is much maligned and done wrong can certainly go a long way in tearing down your guild’s morale.  It is certainly a system that can be used to unfairly give gains to people who don’t deserve it just like any other system.  However, that’s true of all the ways to give out loot.  It’s not just the system but also the fact that our officers are willing to submit themselves to the same rules as the rest of the raid when it comes to bidding that helps to keep the system valid and working. 

Some may prefer a loot council, but if a small group of people decide where loot goes, whoever comes out with the short end of the stuck may feel like they were unfairly passed over.  Others still like just random rolling, which is fair on an individual basis, but then you have to make rules regarding how often someone can come back to the trough each night and that in itself can lead to complications.  No matter what system you go with though, it’s really going to depend on the people involved in it and how they use or abuse it.

Me personally, I’ve come to love silent auction DKP, and if you want to take a peek at my armory page, I think you can see why.

-Dueg

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7 Responses to “A Case for DKP”


  1. 03/17/2009 at 9:19 AM

    On a dkp subject – I believe in a firm ‘to each their own’ – I’ve been in guilds that ran great on Suicide Kings, I’ve been in guilds that progressed smoothly on Open Rolls [true story], I’ve been in guilds that worked excellent on Loot Council, Zero Sum DKP, DKP with a terribly fast Decay. It really, in my honest opinion, comes to how much your fellow guildies respect each other and the guild, and beyond that how knowledgeable your guildies are of each others specs and needs.

  2. 03/17/2009 at 9:28 AM

    I was in a Naxx 25 PUG on Sunday night and they used Suicide Kings (which I had never seen before because I’m a Raiding noob).

    Anyway, I was one of the last ones to join the group but I was the highest Hunter roll and for the next hour and a half the girl I superseded with my roll complained on Vent and /raid chat about it.

    Naturally, Hunter loot dropped on the last boss before we quit for the night and I took it. She then went off the rails basically on everyone about how lame it all was and how cruelly unjust society is.

    My point is that, regardless of system, it’s a shame you can never make everyone happy. It’s nice to see you’ve come up with something everyone is generally pleased with.

  3. 03/17/2009 at 10:25 AM

    As long as players want loot it’ll never be fair… 😦

    Pretty cool addon. Question is will it be uploaded to someplace like Curse?

  4. 03/17/2009 at 10:31 AM

    @ Kyr: I don’t know to tell you the truth, the officer who made it went MIA like a week after he put it up on the forums. If I ever see him again, I’ll suggest he does, but till then it’ll just have to a be a guild only tool I suppose.

  5. 03/17/2009 at 10:34 AM

    Hmm, dkp! My guild had a meeting about that one just yesterday (jeez, then I found out being an officer can suck! But hey ^^). We now use a public bidding system (must raise by 10 always) ppl in minus cant bid,… But we experienced people indeed making agreements and getting loot cheap or they wanna be a bitch and make people pay a lot…
    So we figured out the next system:
    Mix of lootcouncil and a fixed price system.
    People go by fixed prices if they want something they state their dkp. If people have the same dkp (we’ll look at it per 10) we introduce a lootcouncil to have a closer look at it. We also introduced a 150dkp cap to avoid ppl saving dkp for items. Let’s say 99% of the guild was OK with that 😛 It may not be the best system and we’ll put it in action with Ulduar and then see how it goes. Imo, which dkp system is flawless? All Dkp systems have their downsides…

  6. 03/17/2009 at 3:44 PM

    That sounds like an awesome mod. Auctioning dkp system.. never thought about that. I hope you make a post if your officer comes back and decides to open it to public:D

  7. 7 Perrin
    03/17/2009 at 10:09 PM

    Before you settle, check out EPGP on Google Projects as well. Its quite an easy one that’s very like DKP but has two addons EPGP and EPGP_Lootmaster that make it a breeze. It also discourages DKP hoarding and avoids the collusion issue with blind bidding.


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