02
Apr
09

Oh, the Things You will Achieve

Picture not approved by Mrs Dueg

Picture not approved by Mrs Dueg

So now that we’ve successfully cleared all the current content in the game, there’s a sense of “What now?” in my guild.  We ended up taking a day off from raiding on Monday due to lack of content and if we clear Maly and Sarth 3D this Sunday (Sarth 3D isn’t exactly farm status, so no guarantee), we’ll probably do the same again this week.  All this is leading to a sense that we’re kind of done for the time being since technically there’s no progression left to be had.  This can result in a sort of malaise that will begin to erode at your guild base to the point where you might start losing out on raid nights because too many people have a “What’s the point?” attitude.

But is there truly no progression?  When 3.1 hit, Blizzard implemented the achievement system in order to add a new aspect to this game that we love so much, but can get bored with at times.  The system was great for us in that it gave us a new set of goals goals to accomplish in the game and great for Blizzard because it also gave us a new set of reasons to log on.  Some of them are easy, but there are some that challenge even the most hardcore of raiders and will keep them coming back for more, gnashing at the bit to prove that they’re the best.

So last night it was decided that we would like to do a little bit gnashing ourselves and from now on all Naxx raids would be achievement raids in order to keep things fresh and to give us a sense of progression.  First item on the menu would be The Immortal to the exclusion of all other achievements so we decided to start with the Plague wing since it’s one of the easier ones and see how far we got before someone died.  Unfortunately, one of our raiders went afk and wasn’t back in time for Loatheb, so we started without him and it turns out that Deathbloom is a zone wide ability, killing him outside of the boss’ room and ruining our raid ID for the week.  Needless to say, he was an example of what not to do while the guild is working on achievements (go afk for an extended period of time without telling us).

So after that went down, we decided we were just gonna do all the achievements we could while we were there and it was a pretty fun evening all in all.  It didn’t really make us do anything different than we normally would, but seeing that little window pop up whenever we finished a fight was somewhat intoxicating.  It wasn’t until then that I realized that the idea of making something more challenging than it needs to be just for bragging rights could actually be a version of progression for guilds hurting for content.  Even though we missed out on our original goal of getting the Immortal, we still got quite a few we normally wouldn’t have bothered with.  I’m particular proud we were able to get And They Would All Go Down Together in only two shots even though we missed getting Shocking because right at the end (I mean, literally when Thad was less than 1%) someone crossed polarities.

So are achievements the new progression once you’ve cleared all content?  It sort of felt that way to me last night.  I mean, what exactly is progression if not a goal that can be accomplished through increasingly challenging content?  However, since we had already accomplished the hardest 25 man encounter in the game, were these piddling achievements really more of a mopping up what we’d already missed or could they still be thought of as progression?  When I really thought about it, I saw that all that’s really left for our guild to accomplish as a 25 man raid group is the Glory of the Raider meta-achievement before it becomes trivialized by Ulduar loot.

However, there are some people who just aren’t interested in achievement for one reason or another.  They show up for raids, get the job done, collect their loot and go home.  They’re good raiders and you don’t want to fault them, but they’d prefer to just shoot through whatever we’re doing instead of wasting time and intentionally wiping over and over for what they consider a silly reason.  And the problem is that since it’s not progression and they’re really not preventing you from doing the fight (just doing it a particular way), can you truly fault these people for being opponents to this?  I know I was a little skeptical  last night because I knew we were pretty much becoming unconscious at doing Naxx and if we powered through it we would have time to do Maly also which is the only fight left that has an upgrade for me.

So where do you stand on raiding achievements?  Are they a form of progression or just a fun way to kill a couple of raid nights while you wait for Ulduar to come out?  I know some guilds consider The Immortal to be srs bsnss and will rabidly chew out anyone who ruins the raid ID, but is that truly fair?  Have they cost the guild progression?

And for anyone who cares, our full list of achievements besides the four horseman one I already mentioned were Momma Said Knock You OutArachnophobia, Make Quick Werk of Him, The Safety Dance, The Hundred Club and Just Can’t Get Enough.  But Dueg’s all time favorite achievement, raid or otherwise?

knuckle-sandwch-Dueg

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9 Responses to “Oh, the Things You will Achieve”


  1. 04/02/2009 at 10:41 AM

    I totally got the Knuckle Sandwhich one on Loatheb. >.>

  2. 04/02/2009 at 11:17 AM

    Hehe, atleast your guild is doing achievements. In mine we’re torn appart in 2 bases:
    We want to do achievements
    We don’t want to do achievements

    Kinda sucks, also ppl slack too much on the immortal and dieing for stupid reasons, polarity as well… If they would get extra loot I’m sure we’d be doing great…

  3. 3 Duht
    04/02/2009 at 11:36 AM

    I’m not a big achievement fan. In the raid achievements, I view them as falling into two categories.

    First there are the counterintuitive achievements like The Hundred Club, and Momma Said Knock You Out. These aren’t adding new dimensions to the fight as much as they are a result of brute force. Typically something you begin to see when a raid group considers the place “on farm”.

    Then there’s the You’re probably gonna do this anyway type achievements. Arachnophobia being a good example. It’s entirely possible to get this one accidentally and still not have full cleared naxx. If your DPS are doing their jobs well (mine aren’t /cry), this stuff is going to happen.

    I guess I don’t really see them as progression as much as something for OCD MMORPGers to scratch of their list.

  4. 04/02/2009 at 11:52 AM

    I wonder if one way to motivate (or at least placate) people who don’t care about achievements would be to open up the guild bank to paying raider repair bills if you’re going to spend a raid night really working on achievements.

    If you’re going to go for them with such gusto that you’ll even wipe it up if you miss an achievement, it might encourage people to know they won’t have to pay for the wipe. Of course you could do other incentives like more DKP per achievement.

    I would not support penalties or scolding for messing up achievements, but I can see how such things would come about when lots of people want the achievements, but others feel they add nothing to the game or their characters.

  5. 04/02/2009 at 12:02 PM

    FUN IMMORTAL STORY:

    No one died until Kel’thuzad at 12% because of a person who got MC’d, went up to someone who had the Mana Explosion… the MC dropped and the explosion went off.

    Hooray quirky deaths.

  6. 6 Light
    04/02/2009 at 12:24 PM

    I’m not a fan of achievements. Maybe it’s because I think they are ripped off from Xbox Live, but to me they seem to artificially extend gameplay by making you do things you wouldn’t normally do to get them.

    That being said, I will give them a shot but I do not like doing them over and over again if it causes a lot of repair bills (Oculus, here’s looking at you).

  7. 04/02/2009 at 1:30 PM

    “There are some people who just aren’t interested in achievement for one reason or another. They show up for raids, get the job done, collect their loot and go home. They’re good raiders and you don’t want to fault them, but they’d prefer to just shoot through whatever we’re doing instead of wasting time and intentionally wiping over and over for what they consider a silly reason.” – Deug

    That is the best summary of my own feelings regarding achievements that I have ever read. I wish I’d written it.

    “The problem is that since it’s not progression and they’re really not preventing you from doing the fight (just doing it a particular way), can you truly fault these people for being opponents to this?” – Doug

    I have several friends who are unabashed achievement hores. I recognize they draw enjoyment and satisfaction from this play style and I don’t fault them for it or speak disparagingly of their style of play. At the same time, I wish they wouldn’t try to drag me into an activity that is not, for me, enjoyable.

    The point of a game is to have fun. I don’t tell others how to have fun and I appreciate when they offer the same consideration to me.

  8. 8 wantedpriest
    04/03/2009 at 12:17 AM

    I tend to view achievements as adding a little flavor to the game. My group will generally try to pick them up as we go along, but we won’t make more than 1 attempt at something before we move on. We definitely haven’t cleared all content though, and would be happy to get Champion of the Frozen Wastes finished in the near future.

    Once we have that done, we will probably try to finish off Glory of the Hero and make some progress on Glory of the Raider.

    I really like the fact that there are achievement goals for a multitude of play styles and committment levels.

    I definitely wouldn’t hold it against someone in my guild if they wanted to work on an alt, or do some pvp instead of running their main through familiar content though.

    I strongly agree with Aleathea’s final remark.

    And while I can sympathize with those trying to get the 25 man versions of the raiding achievements done when some of the raid team isn’t interested, there are still alot of achievements at the 5 and 10 man level that will challenge your raiders. (If you can settle for being slightly less glorious, that is.)

    Vess

  9. 9 Duht
    04/03/2009 at 6:59 AM

    “At the same time, I wish they wouldn’t try to drag me into an activity that is not, for me, enjoyable. ”

    ^This

    I HATE this. I don’t mind giving a couple wipes to attempt an achievement when I’m there. But I’m about this || close to snapping on some of my friends that want to drag me into some pointless instance somewhere so I can spend the entire evening doing something I derive no pleasure from.

    Because I play a tankadin, I have several squishy/non healing friends and I get this often. Some have even taken to begging.


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